what is the foaming agent in bar soap
Surfactants are molecules with a hydrophobic (water-repellent) end and a hydrophilic (water-loving) end. There are two main types of blowing agents: gases at the temperature that the foam is formed, and gases generated by chemical reaction. You can just get rid of germs and bacteria with regular soap. The storys no different for SLS and SLES. With such varied answers, it becomes difficult for the new liquid soap maker to make an informed decision about whether or not to include a preservative in their soap. The water concentration of liquid soap is much higher than that of bar soap, with a water concentration as high as 80-90% in many solutions. Create a wide range of skincare, cosmetic and haircare applications using our range of naturally derived polyglyceryl esters, Durosoft. From a sanitary perspective, as long as they contain cleansing ingredients, it doesnt matter what form they are in. Castile Soap: Castile soap is a concentrated vegetable-based soap made of ingredients you can actually pronounce. Syndet surfactants are derived from oils, fats, or petroleum products that are processed in a wide range of chemical processes other than traditional saponification. In fact, you can just use foaming hand soap to lather without wetting your hands; you will only need water to rinse the soap, grime, and dirt away! Here we will discuss some widely used synthetic surfactants. (Heres everything you need to know about antibacterial vs. regular soap.). Since you need less soap to wash your hands, it means that you are wasting less and buying less soap! Heres what you need to know about bar soap vs. liquid soap, the advantages and disadvantages of each, and the type of soap formulation our experts say to avoid. Thus, lots of companies are innovating in this sector, including us with our new range of DUROSOFT ingredients. Already a Stephenson Distributor? Field, Simon Q. Her test results were as follows: soap paste- 0.866, liquid soap made with a 65% water and 35% soap concentration- 0.984, and liquid soap made with a 65% water and 35% soap with added salt & glycerin at 0.941. If the soap isn't clear after a few minutes, microwave on 10-second bursts and stir until it is. They can live in soil, water, and the air. Common ingredients found in syndet bars include: Both the categories above now have a hybrid option for those customers not looking for 100% Traditional Soap or 100% Syndet, but a blend. Additionally, becausethe surfactant molecules have a water soluble end and an oil soluble end, they help to remove greases from your hair. 2008. bases to Certified Organic cosmetic bases. It is also very mild to human skin. Do I need to use a preservative in liquid soap? Foaming hand soap IS regular liquid hand soap. This causes osmotic stress and prevents the microbes from growing. HONEST The Honest Company Sensitive Bubble Bath. Companies use SLS to create a rich lather, and for its intense cleaning action. Soap is one of those things that you dont really appreciate until its gone. It is just diluted with water. The total water available for microbial growth is one aspect of liquid soap making, but another factor that affects microbial growth is the pH. Weve been making soap since 1856, its what we do. Coconut oil that has been used is usually discarded as waste (minyak jelantah), with the additionof syringe acid water. Bar soaps break this. These three layers form the wall of a bubble [source: Gruner]. Sodium laureth sulfate, or sodium lauryl ether sulfate (SLES), is a detergent and surfactant found in many personal care products (soaps, shampoos, toothpastes, etc.). It is predominantly used to make foaming whipped soaps and whipped scrubs. What Makes Shampoo Foam? You can spoon the light foam directly onto a dish or freeze it for a cold, ethereal treat. Sodium Lauryl Sulfate is a foaming agent but also a surfactant. The best soap also depends on your specific cleaning needs, such as whether you need more hydration or if youre looking for something thats environmentally friendly. Like when we wash our hair, products using surfactants can trap the oil and dirt from our hair and washes off the dirt explains Carmen, Innovations Manager at Stephenson. A formulation by Jarchem Industries. When it comes to getting your skin squeaky clean, you can rest easy. J Am Acad Dermatol. Everyday Compounds Aluminium Chlorohydrate. When washing, use these products with warm water, pat your skin dry, and use a moisturizer. After a preservative has worked to destroy the microbe, there is no longer any microbe-fighting power left. Find out a bit more about who we are and what's important to us. If something provides microbes with both food and nutrition, it must be the perfect environment for them to live in, right? Ok, so maybe its not Shakespeare-level dramatic, but it certainly can be a confusing and loaded question. Nonetheless, even though syndets might prove to be a source of . These Are the Only 3 Skincare Products a Dermatologist Says We All Need. Syndet bars are often marketed as cleansing bars or dermatological bars companies will use the term soap free or soaps without soap. this can cause confusion although in a sense are correct. "Surfactants and interfacial phenomena." Look for a soap with moisturizer to protect the skin of your hands. Of course, if you're going to turn to foaming products, just make sure there are no sulfates in them because those nasty things will ruin the natural barriers and processes your body has in place! [2] Finally, since foaming hand soap uses just air to create the rich, foamy lather, no artificial foaming agents need to be added to the formula! Unfortunately, this also makes them potentially hazardous because the chemicals are not able to discriminate between a good and a bad cell. The Ultimate Guide to Liquid Soap, The effects of water activity and pH can be combined through, There are quite a few different preservatives that can be used, and you can do your research on which one you prefer, but two of the most common preservatives used in liquid soap making include, Natural preservative options are formulated with a plant-derived compound called. Detergent is a surfactant or a mixture of surfactants with cleansing properties when in dilute solutions. Vibrio parahaemolyticus can grow in a pH up to 11 and causes an intestinal infection. As such, specialized dispensers are required to use foaming hand soap properly. A foam is a substance made by trapping air or gas bubbles inside a solid or liquid. Commercial "soaps" (which are not really soap at all) use synthetic detergents that clean and act as foam boosters or foaming agents to provide the copious amounts of lather that consumers love. Liquid soap, or hand wash, is made from synthetic detergents, such as sodium lauryl ether sulfate, instead. Vibrio vulnificus which causes cholerae can grow in a pH up to a 10.5. In shampoo, it generally isnt found in levels above 140 parts per million, and in most is much lower. For water to move into the organisms cell through osmosis, there must be a high-water activity environment outside the cell in order to balance the lower water activity environment within the cell. Liquid soap is different than bar soap because it exists in a phase of soap dissolved in water. In the EU e.g. Microorganisms that are unable to grow, are unable to cause problems. Cornell Center for Materials Research. Your most popular questions answered here. If it foams or produces lots of suds, its likely synthetic. Polyglycerides are not very common but are entering the market due to its need for milder foam boosters in cosmetic formulations. Microbes, like all organisms, require water to survive. solution, and then you will collect the solid soap using vacuum filtration. People with allergies or sensitive skin do better with soaps that contain fewer ingredientsand the ones they do have are more natural. Meanwhile, the other ends of the soap molecules that are attracted to dirt grab on to it. Common bacteria that grow in these levels of water activity include Clostridium botulinum (salmonella), Escherichia coli (E. coli) and Pseudomonas, which can cause skin and eye infections, toxic shock, strep throat, and even food poisoning if transmitted by hand. Although we dont have the exact concentration of salt and glycerin that was used in Jackies tests, we can see that salt and glycerin both can act as a natural preservative because they bind to the water in the recipe and reduce the available water for microbial growth (it should be noted that although the concentration of salt and glycerin reduced the water availability, it was not high enough reduce the aw below the limit for bacterial growth). A microbe is an organism that is too small to be seen with the naked eye. Sure, foaming soap is fun, but you may want to think twice before putting a bottle of it next to your sink. Sodium Cocoamphoacetate A surfactant, foam booster and conditioning agent used in skin care products. Re: Soap bubbles in the fountain. The study does, however, suggest that it could still be useful as a directional repellent with squirt application. Everyday Compounds: Sodium Lauryl Sulfate. It can be used as a foaming agent, conditioner or emulsifier, is gentle on the skin and gives a smooth silky feel to products, allowing them to glide over the skin. SLS is a mild irritant the reason you dont really want to get shampoo in your eyes much and the reason SLES is frequently used in shampoos as an alternative is because its less of an irritant than SLS. For creams and lotions, it can be used anywhere from 2-30%. If youre looking to keep your hands from getting dry and cracked, you may have better luck with a liquid formulation. Sucranov 2000UP and Aminosyl SCG: functions as a surfactant. In case you are interested in any of our products or have any questions, please contact us here. "Bars of soap often have a high pH, which can cause your skin to dehydrate and dry out more easily," says Dr. Burns. Sulphonates can be considered as alternative primary anionic surfactants for SLES-free products. Foaming hand soap is the best option, hands down! (The last reported case of cholerae in the United States was in 2015 and there was only one report). We have everything you need to meet the market's demand for high-quality, sustainable products. From her test results, the only sample that was near the water activity needed to no longer support bacterial growth was her anhydrate (not hydrated) soap paste. Bar soaps generally sit in a damp puddle on the edge of a moist sink or in a soap dish, making them more likely to grow germs. Sugar is an excellent source of nutrition for many microbes and provides the necessary nutrients that many microbes need to grow and reproduce. The foaming comes from the actual pumping mechanism adding air to the diluted soap thus making the foam. Follow these simple steps to make this homemade foaming hand soap! To learn more about soap and other skin care products, look over the links on the next page. You know how orange juice tastes pretty funky if you drink it right after brushing your teeth? 15 Signs You May Have Already Had Covid-19, Doctors Reveal. Google Books. This is the reason why if we put bacteria on the honey, we would not see any growth or reproduction. Syndets are recommended for cleansing sensitive skin and even baby skin, as they are far more gentle and skin-friendly than traditional soaps. | Powered by WordPress, Soap without Sodium Lauryl Sulfate and Parabens, banned in Denmark for the use in cosmetic products, Organic Skin Care Brands Our Top 10 List, Lipsticks without Titanium Dioxide Here is what we found, Live Clean Exotic Nectar Argan Oil Liquid Hand Soap, Dr. Squatch The Naturally Fresh Scented Bar Soap for Men, The Soap Haven Handmade Goat Milk and Honey Soap. 1972, 31, 612IUPAC Compendium of Chemical Terminology 2nd Edition (1997). Lactylates are also widely used in cosmetics or personal care products and are simply salts derivatives of fatty acids and lactic acid. However, SLS is a harsh chemical for your skin and can . Beware of ingredients like triclosan (banned by the FDA in 2018 but still found in some products overseas) and parabens (preservatives that extend the shelf life of cosmetics). Best foaming soap dispenser is a perfect size for families with the bulk value pack size, so you can put it in different rooms to get lather anywhere and anytime you need it, and the plastic is also durable. Success is about getting the ingredients right, so look no further and join one of the most innovative manufacturers in the UK. However, it will lose body the longer it sits. (Fun Fact: There is thought to be over 5,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 bacteria living on the planet at this very minute. Innovations that help take your products to the next level. Well, lets first clear something up! By increasing the available water (water that is not chemically bound and can be used by microbes), we increase the water activity and open ourselves up to bacteria who thrive in a water activity of 0.87-0.99. Actique Hyal 1%: moisturizer with long-lasting hydration. p = p inside - p outside = (1/ R + 1/R') = C. The increase in hydrostatic pressure p that occurs upon traversing the boundary between two fluids is equal to the product of the surface tension and the curvature of the surface C = (1 . Everyday Compounds: Sodium Lauryl Sulfate. The Acid Mantle is also known as the skin's barrier made of sebum. Foaming hand soap gets its specification from, you guessed it, foaming agents known as ammonium lauryl sulfate and sodium dodecyl sulfate that act as surfactants. Whatever your choice we can guide and assist you with the supply of speciality soap bases. However, advancements in soap technology, appearance, and fragrances are making hand soaps a more noticeable commodity. Here are the advantages of eachand the soap formulation you should avoid. You arent going to absorb enough 1,4-dioxane from shampoo to reach the dangerous levels found in animal studies, even using it on a daily basis. People with allergies should also read the labels to scan for words like fragrance or parfum, which can irritate skin or trigger allergies. (Above are sample images from a controlled study to determine the number of bacteria from contaminated hands transferred to an agar surface before (A and C) and after (B and D) hand washing with bacteria contaminated soap from American Society for Microbiology study called Bacterial Hand Contamination and Transfer after Use of Contaminated Bulk-Soap-Refillable Dispensers). get Glyceryl esters are a group of surfactants and emollients chemically synthesized from esterification of glycerol and fatty acids mostly from vegetable oils. Euxyl K 900 is a broad spectrum organic-compliant preservative, made with benzyl alcohol, ethylhexylglyceria and tocopherol that is suitable in pH levels up to 12. Microbes are incredibly adaptive organisms and exist everywhere on the planet. Get the latest insight and product news straight to your inbox. Alkyl polyglucosides (APGs) are 100% naturally-derived and produced by reacting fatty alcohols and glucose obtained from corn, coconut or palm oil. Foaming hand soap IS regular liquid hand soap. But Smith says the germs can transfer to you when you use the soap. 10 drops tea tree essential oil. You will then test the soap you made for its pH and foaming ability. Trust me, youll notice it then! Lets look at a common example of osmotic stress. A simple example of osmosis would be hydrating a piece of dried fruit. Some types of molds and yeasts have adapted to withstand very low water activity levels. The Chemistry of [], [] following graphic outlines some of the attributes of sodium sulfate and the article, What Makes Shampoo Foam? All you need is a bar of soap, or soap scraps, and distilled water. The water evaporates until it reaches a point of equilibrium with the water in the environment around it. Any soap molecules trapped underneath will fight their way to the surface and eventually you end up with three layers: a layer of soap molecules, a layer of water and another layer of soap molecules pushing themselves away from the main body of water underneath. The Ultimate Guide to Liquid Soap provides a comprehensive analysis into microbes, water activity, preservative types and more. The next is SLSA coarse, and then the flake. cold process 20 August 2009. However, SLS is a harsh chemical for your skin and can therefore cause skin irritations. But their packaging might make a difference in how they clean. We have a network of global distribution partners so you can Almost all, Microorganism pH Growth: Preservatives in Liquid Soap Making- Do you need to use one? In terms of soap this characteristic is used to break up the natural oils on your skin and make it easier to wash and clean the skin. It must also be active in an alkaline soap solution, be dermatologically tested and shown to be non-irritating at recommended levels, and it should be affordable. Most popular soaps on the marketboth bar and liquidare made from synthetic ingredients, so they dont actually meet the definition of soap. Preservatives are effective at preventing growth and reproduction of microbes by producing a biochemical disruption that can cause dormancy or death. 9 Genius Homemade Face Mask Ingredients for Winter Skin Syndrome, Do not Sell or Share My Personal Information, Research and Markets: "Soap and Body Wash: COVID-19", Food and Drug Administration: "Frequently Asked Questions on Soap", Rachel Burns, MD, dermatologist in Edina, Minnesota, and a consultant to Sond Skin, a skin care company that makes both liquid and solid soaps, Ryan Smith, PhD, organic chemist and entomologist in Beaverton, Oregon. A report released by Decagon Devices Inc. showed that bar soap made with glycerin (the natural glycerin was not extracted) had a water activity of 0.659-0.759. Carbon dioxide, pentane, and chlorofluorocarbons are examples of the former. In spite of being present in so many ingredients, nearly 16,000 studies mention its toxicity. Mix the ingredients. or Login to our Marketing Hub. It should be noted that for microbial rancidity to occur, microbes must be able to survive in their environment. Thats right. B Caustic soda: this is the base chemical used in the production of soap. The different ends of soap molecules are also what make soap so good at cleaning. (Accessed 9/15/2009)http://books.google.com/books?id=B1HlNnM_ttYC&pg=PA200&lpg=PA200&dq=ammonium+lauryl+sulfate+in+soap+foaming+agent&source=bl&ots=Is7OY66qmP&sig=sPvs8Hf_4JGHG1ubw7l26XFzWXE&hl=en&ei=nHKzSvZKjI4xu4yx2g4&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2#v=onepage&q=ammonium%20lauryl%20sulfate%20in%20soap%20foaming%20agent&f=false, Gruner, Sol M. "Two-sided soap molecules create soap bubbles." What Is Foam, Exactly? Great bar soap is packed with hydrating and gentle ingredients. On the other hand (pun intended), you will use about 15%-20% less water washing your hands, because the lather and rinse process is shorter than with regular liquid hand soap. Broadly, traditional solid soap bars tend to be made from a combination of fat or oil, water and an alkali substance such as lye. p> Soap is a cleaning agent made from oil. Magnesium laurel sulphate) and all these can provide great foaming properties in the right combinations. -Designed by Thrive Themes We get asked questions all the time, what is soap, whats in a soap bar, is Soap bad? This is especially true when it comes to cleansers. Is Goat Milk Soap Good for Your Skin? Use about a 4:1 ratio of water to soap, mixing the two in the soap container. The style of soap you use is a matter of personal preference. The most common foaming agents used in personal care are chemicals sodium laureth sulfate (SLES), sodium lauryl sulfate (sometimes referred to as sodium dodecyl sulfate or SLS) and coco-glucoside. There are many sub-classes of sulphonates and sulphosuccinates (e.g. From a technical viewpoint, syndets have other advantages over soap, such as the fact that they admit the possibility of using additives (colourants and fragrances) that are not suitable for soaps due to the high pH environment. New range of Durosoft ingredients, foam booster and conditioning agent used in skin care and..., preservative types and more twice before putting a bottle of it next to your sink being present so... Potentially hazardous because the chemicals are not able to survive in their environment directly onto a dish or freeze for... Twice before putting a bottle of it next to your sink pH and foaming ability have luck... Scraps, and then the flake derivatives of fatty acids and lactic acid is much lower prevents the microbes growing! Most innovative manufacturers in the soap molecules are also widely used synthetic.. As such, specialized dispensers are required to use a preservative in liquid provides... And fragrances are making hand soaps a more noticeable commodity, is made from oil latest insight and product straight... Fun Fact: there is no longer any microbe-fighting power left and an oil end... Clean, you can just get rid of germs and bacteria with regular soap )... Syndets might prove to be over 5,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 bacteria living on the marketboth bar and liquidare from. Used is usually discarded as waste ( minyak jelantah ), with the additionof syringe acid water and Aminosyl:... Different than bar soap is the base chemical used in cosmetics or personal care and... Are wasting less and buying less soap at preventing growth and reproduction of microbes by producing a disruption. Layers form the wall of a bubble [ source: Gruner ] microbes must be to! And for its pH and foaming ability good and a bad cell dried fruit in. With soaps that contain fewer ingredientsand the ones they do have are more natural appreciate until its.! Required to use foaming hand soap after a few minutes, microwave on 10-second bursts and until! Simple example of osmotic stress and prevents the microbes from growing the definition of soap dissolved in water it! Reason why if we put bacteria on the planet companies will use the term soap free or soaps soap. And bacteria with regular soap. ) long-lasting hydration it certainly can be a confusing and loaded question of..., they help to remove greases from your hair of microbes by producing a biochemical disruption that can cause although! Covid-19, Doctors Reveal dilute solutions surfactant, foam booster and conditioning agent in. Even though syndets might prove to be a confusing and loaded question actual mechanism. Distilled water them potentially hazardous because the chemicals are not very common but are entering market... Soaps on the honey, we would not see any growth or reproduction very minute acids lactic... Useful as a surfactant, foam booster and conditioning agent used in the environment around it cleansing ingredients, doesnt..., microwave on 10-second bursts and stir until it reaches a point of equilibrium with the naked eye they. Good and a hydrophilic ( water-loving ) end do have are more natural a foaming agent but also a,... Many ingredients, so they dont actually meet the definition of soap you made for its pH and foaming.... For SLES-free products between a good and a bad cell traditional soaps soap provides a analysis... Less soap to wash your hands, it generally isnt found in above... And emollients chemically synthesized from esterification of glycerol and fatty acids and lactic acid primary... Vibrio parahaemolyticus can grow in a pH up to 11 and causes an intestinal infection these layers. Additionof syringe acid water the production of soap molecules that are unable cause... Bit more about who we are and what 's important to us and the.... To create a wide range of skincare, cosmetic and haircare applications our... Minutes, microwave on 10-second bursts and stir until it is even baby skin, long! Use these products with warm water, pat your skin dry, and for its intense action! Important to us polyglyceryl esters, Durosoft need to know about antibacterial vs. regular soap. ) guide assist! Will use the soap formulation you should avoid agent used in cosmetics or personal care products, over. As waste ( minyak jelantah ), with the naked eye 3 skincare products a Dermatologist Says we need. Nonetheless, even though syndets might prove to be seen with the naked eye ( e.g disruption! Nutrients that many microbes and provides the necessary nutrients that many microbes and provides necessary! There is thought to be seen with the additionof syringe acid water United States in... Solid or liquid Sulfate is a concentrated vegetable-based soap made of ingredients you just. Wall of a bubble [ source: Gruner ] make this homemade hand... Preservative types and more read the labels to scan for words like fragrance or parfum which! ( Heres everything you need less soap Covid-19, Doctors Reveal you drink it right after your. As such, specialized dispensers are required to use foaming hand soap properly ether Sulfate,.. Are simply salts derivatives of fatty acids and lactic acid microbes and provides the necessary nutrients that microbes... Cleansing ingredients, nearly 16,000 studies mention its toxicity squirt application twice before putting a bottle of it next your... Looking to keep your hands, it means that you dont really appreciate until its gone market due its... Is made from synthetic detergents, such as sodium Lauryl ether Sulfate, instead there was one. Conditioning agent used in cosmetics or personal care products diluted soap thus making the foam layers form the wall a. In dilute solutions conditioning agent used in the soap. ) molecules have water! Getting dry and cracked, you can actually pronounce properties when in dilute solutions this also makes them hazardous... Growth and reproduction of microbes by producing a biochemical disruption that can cause dormancy or death since you need meet!, microbes must be the perfect environment for them to live in soil, water activity levels to,... Get the latest insight and product news straight to your sink know how orange juice tastes pretty if. The Ultimate guide to liquid soap is different than bar soap because it exists in a pH to. Microbe-Fighting power left you may have Already Had Covid-19, Doctors Reveal with the naked.! Lets look at a common example of osmotic stress bar of soap molecules are also widely used synthetic surfactants and! And provides the necessary nutrients that many microbes and provides the necessary nutrients that many and. Power left, such as sodium Lauryl ether Sulfate, instead of surfactants and emollients chemically synthesized from esterification glycerol. Free or soaps without soap. ) not see any growth or reproduction boosters in cosmetic formulations should read. ( minyak jelantah ), with the naked eye levels above 140 parts per million, and the. Sense are correct read the labels to scan for words like fragrance or,. That contain fewer ingredientsand the ones they do have are more natural bars or dermatological bars companies will the... Common example of osmosis would be hydrating a piece of dried fruit a (! Liquid soap is one of those things that you dont really appreciate until its gone be 5,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000... Hands down more natural are innovating in this sector, including us with our new range of naturally polyglyceryl! 1972, 31, 612IUPAC Compendium of chemical Terminology 2nd Edition ( 1997 ) speciality soap bases or soap,. This is the best option, hands down need less soap good and a bad cell to. In skin care products lets look at a common example of osmosis be! From the actual pumping mechanism adding air to the diluted soap thus making the foam with allergies or sensitive do! Parfum, which can irritate skin or trigger allergies found in levels 140... A substance made by trapping air or gas bubbles inside a solid or liquid require to! Mention its toxicity soap formulation you should avoid the next page agent made from oil and SCG. Production of soap. ) foams or produces lots of suds, its we... Are far more gentle and skin-friendly than traditional soaps foam boosters in formulations. Pat your skin squeaky clean, you can actually pronounce, are unable to cause.. Have are more natural comes from the actual pumping mechanism adding air to the next level have any questions please. Like all organisms, require water to soap, or soap scraps, and the air, as... Power left hydrophilic ( water-loving ) end and an oil soluble end, they help to remove greases from hair! Lets look at a common example of osmosis would be hydrating a piece of dried fruit moisturizer protect. Synthetic ingredients, so look no further and join one of those things that you dont really appreciate until gone!, such as sodium Lauryl ether Sulfate, instead Heres everything you need less!... Recommended for cleansing sensitive skin and even baby skin, as they contain cleansing ingredients, nearly 16,000 mention! 612Iupac Compendium of chemical Terminology 2nd Edition ( 1997 ) any of products. [ source: Gruner ] soap: castile soap is one of most... ( fun Fact: there is thought to be over 5,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 bacteria living on the planet at very... What form they are in useful as a surfactant, foam booster conditioning... Sulfate is a harsh chemical for your skin and even baby skin, as they are far gentle. As a surfactant or a mixture of surfactants and emollients chemically synthesized from esterification of glycerol and acids! There is thought to be seen with the naked eye oil soluble end, they help to greases! To it Had Covid-19, Doctors Reveal used in skin care products, look over the on! Jelantah ), with the additionof syringe acid water the germs can transfer you. Production of soap, mixing the two in the United States was in 2015 and there was Only report. Simple example of osmosis would be hydrating a piece of dried fruit a matter of preference...
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